Okay, rather than posting my own views, let me get the ball rolling with a commentary I heard on the radio from a writer named Steven Barnes. It is short and thoughtful. For a link to listen to it, click here. But the text itself is below. See what you think and post a reaction, giving what you think is his best point or where you think he is off base.
The last two weeks have been a particularly interesting time to be black. Presidential candidate Barack Obama raised $25 million.
Charges were dropped against the Duke University lacrosse team, and talk-show host Don Imus was fired from CBS and MSNBC for racially insulting the Rutgers women's basketball team.
These are odd times, in which 21st Century America struggles to find its social and political soul.
A century ago, Booker T. Washington and WEB Dubois debated whether financial power or social equality represented the best path to improved life for blacks in America.
I've heard Prosecutor Mike Nifong's terrible mistakes in the Duke rape case attributed to over-eagerness, perhaps an attempt to compensate for times when sexual violence against black women was underreported and unprosecuted. But even the best intentions would not excuse damaging three innocent college students.
But where Nifong's horrible mistake probably resulted from social pressure and programming, the Don Imus flap is incredibly revealing about the current state of black America, in a way that both Washington and Dubois would have appreciated.
Certainly Imus' words were in poor taste: Entertainers often balance on this thin edge. One could easily believe that black folks are simply being too sensitive, and there's a part of me that agrees with that. But only part.
Perhaps this is all a tempest in a teapot. Surely we've gone beyond all this terrible stuff. I agree. Race doesn't matter in America…it never has, as long as you're white.
It is normal for those with power to be oblivious to the ways they wield it, profit by it, and fight to keep it. In essence, they're like fish who cannot see the water, but get riled up when someone on shore drinks from a paper cup. I'm sure if the position were reversed, blacks would be just as oblivious, just as self-righteously irritated that whites "just can't take a joke." Pity we've never had that opportunity.
But what we do have is blacks situated on the executive boards of major media conglomerates, working in the law offices of CNN, making decisions at multi-billion dollar corporations.
The Imus storm might have died down if not fed by thousands of letters and e-mails, some orchestrated by the NAACP and other groups. But it was the withdrawal of advertising by General Motors, Procter and Gamble, and American Express (led by an African-American CEO, Kenneth Chenault ) that motivated both CBS and MSNBC to drop Imus. They had been hit squarely in the pocketbook, and it hurt.
Personally, I don't particularly think Imus is a racist. Real racists are rarely so forthright. But if he's a victim of the culture wars, his chastisement sends a message loud and clear: This stuff isn't funny. It never was.
For future reference: Men are not the arbiters of what women find insulting. Nor can straights make that decision for gays. Whites don't get to decide what is or is not insulting to blacks.
Partially because of DuBois, blacks sought and acquired the social equality necessary to pierce the corporate walls. But as Booker T. Washington might have predicted, it is financial pressure that forced a change, that drew a long overdue line in the sand. Two sides of a single social/political coin. They must be smiling.
Welcome to the 21st Century.
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46 comments:
I think what Imus said about the Rutgers players was wrong but do not think he deserves to lose his job over it.If a black person makes fun of a white person it is comedy but if a white person makes fun of a black person it is racism. In class you said that it is different becuase of the history of their culture and what went on hundreds of years ago. I just think that there should not be a double standard.... If Imus should lose his job so should Chris rock and other comics. I do not think race should play a role in getting into college. If a white student works hard to earn a 4.0 gpa trying to transfer into ND and an african american gets a 3.4 that is wrong!!!! The student who has worked hard and achieved the better grades or test scores deserves to be admitted.I have nothing against black people i just beleive there should not be a double standard becuase of a person's race.
Let's be honest, whites are not always assumed to be racist when they make fun of black people. Take for instance the creators of south park and family guy, each of them white men; these shows routinely include jokes rooted in racial stereotypes and I have yet to hear anything about them being labeled racist. They may be said to have poor taste but so are many of the black comedians who make fun of whites. The issue is not as one-sided as some people think. As for Don Imus' comments, I am not familiar with the man or his show but assuming this is an isolated incident, he should not have been fired on account of one comment. It is not right to reduce a man to one single action.
When it comes to this race thing, history is just that: in the past. Going back to what Griff said about going to a black high school and seeing their struggle, I believe that it would prove nothing. I attended a high school that was 43% asian, and white people were the minority and many of these Asians grew up in the ghettos of Little Saigon with many disadvantages. Did this put a damper on their success in the classroom? Heck no. Many of the Asians I went to school with strived to overcome the odds and are now attending schools such as UCLA, UCBerkely, and USC. In today's world, I feel that no longer can the race card be played .
I agree with most of what people of posted so far. I like how he says if the roles were reversed the same thing would happen. Of course I am going to be shot down because I'm white but if black people were in power and I, being white, was made fun of, I would not care. It was comedy, whatever. I just recently listened to Sam Kinison who says much much worse things than Imus. The only reason Imus got critized is because he has become prominent and a relatively famous radio person. Free Speech is also the issue here. I heard reporters saying that rappers now should not be able to sing about this. Where does the censorship end? I believe when we live in the past we keep the racism going. Not that we cannot relate to the past or get good things from the past but negative things which happened in the past should stay there. The song "No Good (Attack The Radical)" by Pantera explains this perfectly:
Race, pride, prejudice
Black man, white man
No stand
Live in the past
We make it last
A hated mass
No solution
Mind pollution
For revolution
The solution to Imus is not less free speech, but more of it. Let his ideas play in the marketplace. If they are bad ideas than critically thinking persons will cease listening to him, as his ideas will be shown to be inferior.
The hard truth is that none of the alternatives to Imus have critical thinking. The Today Show? CNN's Morning Latte show? All fluff. Prevent access to critical thought and the narrative can more easily dominate.
Critical thought demolishes narratives. Facts demolish narratives. The narratives say it's best to keep those scary tools out of the hands of the masses.
I feel race is a part of everyday life and people that say that race should not be a factor in getting into schools i agree and disagree i think that in most black neigborhoods they are not givin a chance in school if you have seen the movies Freedom Writers or The Ron Clark story that explains it all...all these kids have no one that believes in them and no good teachers want to teach at their schools where are they going to get the drive to do good it needs to start with the schools they go to and the teachers that teach them...as for colleges letting minoritys into their schools easier i think it tells them that someone cares about them and that they can do good...its not like once their in the school that cant get dismissed for poor grades they have to work just as hard as everyone eles.
As for the Duke situation-- it was not a mistake. It was intentional, and it was illegal. Despite overwhelming evidence that no crime took place, and that the accusations were purely fabricated, the D.A. continued to pursue charges.
For his crime he is facing disbarment, civil action, and possible criminal charges.
The facts disagreed with the narrative, so they had to be disregarded. And besides, the D.A. wanted to win re-election. Narratives are tools of exploitation.
I totally agree with Andrew. What Imus said about those players was wrong. Because he was fired for his remark towards those players, black comedians and showhosts should also be fired. Their remarks are just as hurtful as Imus'. I think that we like to make fun of each others race but most of us do not do it because we are racist. It is only fair that if one should loose his job because of remarks such as this, so should the other man.
I am American! I think that you need to put it in perspective. Imus's comment was very affending to me but I have to realize that we live in a racist world. Their is always going to be a racist remarks and we as Americans just need to get over them. If someone calls me a cracker, I would laugh. If I call my black friends at home niggazzzz....they laugh and tell me i'm retarded. As Americans, we just need to take a breathe and quit blowing things out of perportion. Imus should not have been fired. He has been a talk show host for a long time, you are bound to say something racist. It doesn't mean he is a racist....he was just a little worked up on the issue. Give the man a break. Although the comment was affending, it doesn't mean he is a racist!
I think Robert Winding and Beck, they both made alot of good points. I think that the past is the past, we must learn from it rather than dwell upon it.
After appearing on Al Sharpton's radio show this is what Don Imus had to say, "Our agenda is to be funny and sometimes we go too far. And this time we went way too far. Here's what I've learned: that you can't make fun of everybody, because some people don't deserve it." The Rutgers womens basketball team did not deserve to be called "nappy headed hos", we all know that. These girls did accept his apology, but Imus crossed the line many times before this. He has made jokes about handicapped people, different religions, and different ethnicities. Sometimes when you are in a profession like Imus you have to think before you speak, because it could cost you your job. I would also like to point out that Don Imus is not a comedian, so I dont understand the comparisons. The point is Don Imus had not learned from his past and doesnt deserve any more chances.
Different people are always going to react in many ways towards controversial comments, especially if race in involved. Lets look at this situation from another perspective. Say I am joking around with one my friends and say something that I think is funny, and I also think that he will have a positive reaction to it. What I say could offend him deeply and I would have never known. We don’t always know what will offend people and that is why we have to be so careful with freedom of speech. Going back into the race issue, we have to be extra careful because minorities have generally been discriminated against in the United States. Imus was wrong in his comments, and he should be punished. Maybe he thought his comments were appropriate, but he should have thought more about who he was targeting in those comments. He needs to be more sensitive in regards to offensive language towards theses people.
The word "hoe" is used all of the time in today's society. If you have ever listened to a rap or hip hop song, then you have heard the word "hoe" used. If the majority of female African Americans are not offended by the word "hoe", then why are people making such a big deal out of this? They must not be offended because they never complain about it. Would it have been offensive if a black radio host would have used the word? Of course not. Should we blame Imus for something he heard in a rap song? Imus was just a victim of our growingly uptight society. Ever notice how we have to walk around on egg shells being careful about everything we say?
Angela says:First of all I would like to state that on Friday evening at N.D."s Legends, Owen, a 33 yr. old grad student hosted a comedy show. His first comment was about this issue and the statements, (Owen himself is black) he stated that these type of words are 10 years old, and let's get over it, it's no big deal. Also, interestingly enough was his comments and extremely funny jokes about ,"Black History Month." He stated and I quote,"What is the point of black history month, for they present some history, situations, and words that have occurred in history, these then get me so riled up that when I go to work and my white boss addresses me I say to him F. U." So, during the course of the evening he brought up these important points, and he also in a funny way said that when he went to N.D., blacks were 1% of the school population and they always knew when he was missing from class. He also joked about a lot of different things, but, even how he had to approach white chicks and black chicks in different ways. All in all a very entertaining evening with a great comedian.
Andrew Phillps addressed the issue of affirmative action in his post which opened this dialogue. Why exactly are so many schools submitting themselves to affirmative action? The fact is that there is more to affirmative action than making up for mistakes our white ancestors have made. Affirmative action has to do with brining cultures together into a forum where everyone has different opinions a new point of view. Would Notre Dame really let in what some people would call lesser quality students, only as some type of reparation for the past? Absolutely not. The fact is, that a 3.4 black student can bring something into the classroom that a 4.0 white kid can never bring. During our debate on affirmative action during class, people seemed to show no remorse when it came to shooting down the proposition of affirmative action, claiming that racism is no longer an issue and that we don’t owe anything to African Americans. I think I heard the white side of the story once for every student in our class, and as the debate went on, it became as obvious as ever that we needed more diversity in our debate. This comes from diversity in the classroom. What people need to realize is that affirmative action is about more than creating opportunity, it is a principle dedicated to creating a diverse learning environment. Post modernists say that communities often share the same core beliefs, by allowing different communities into the classroom, even our core beliefs will be challenged by people who are different then us. Many of us our in the process of applying to Notre Dame as we speak, myself included, and we should all be aware that even our greatest efforts to pad our resume with hard earned grades may not reap benefits… but would I really bring anything new to the table in a school full of white 4.0 students (Notre Dame is 75% white). While it may lead to some let down for hard working students, we have to realize that Notre Dame is not just a factory where students go to produce degrees, it is a learning institution.
To Zach: Don Imus is definitely a comedian and on his webpage on msnbc, it says a "daily comedy, news and political program that revolves around the personality of Don Imus." I'm pretty sure he got famous for making offensive jokes too. So I think comparing him to another far more offensive comedian is very fitting. My point was the only reason he got this attention is because of his fame.
People have to be so careful in what they say at their jobs--especially live to the public. I am not surprised at all that Imus lost his job. Because of the past, blacks in today's world win more than they lose. However, Two months ago Mr. Griffin took me on a personal tour to the neighborhood where the Catholic Worker place was supposed to be set up, but he explained that the city said no. The reason being it would interfere with the historical part of SB and the already established "white community." What do ya'll think about that?
Mr. Griffin, do you really feel pursuing a legal case despite overwhelming evidence that proved the innocence of the accused is over eagerness? Are you aware that the female “victim” had made previous allegations and they too were also proven false? That case had so many flaws in it; any competent prosecutor would have never pursed it. I wonder if Mr. Nifongs eagerness to purse the case had anything to do with him being up for re-election, at the time the case first occurred.
You made a good point that I, as a white male, can have no knowledge of what others of different races have suffered. I guess as the son of a second generation immigrant, I know nothing about hardship. I guess I learned no lessons growing up in a low income family, despite both my parents working full time. I guess I do not know what it is like to work full time and go to school full time, just for the chance to get ahead in life. I guess because I am white none of these situations apply to me. I am sure glad I am white, because it has made me a child of privilege. Now I will go get my silver spoon and eat some caviar.
I think he is out of it when he writes that "one can easily believe that black folks are simply being too sensitive.." What Imus said was wrong, not and's if's or but's about it.. We can't start to defend that kind of behavior.
The blacks think that just because what happened in the past they should be given everything hand and foot. Yes, their families somewhere down the line was owned by the white man, but that is not now. Times of changed. Yes, we have to watch what we say in today's world because if we say something and it is taken out of contact you could be called a racist. Today you have to watch what you are saying because it can cause problems. but i just don't get it, if we say anything about the blacks we are called racist. but we can sit there and tell the Mexicans to go back across the boarder and call them any name that we can think of. all because of what happened in history.
OK Tommy Mitchell, so we shouldn't defend free speech? Like it or not there is no law in America that says people are not supposed to be offended, what Imus said was totally within the bounds of the FCC and other communication laws. This Man was thrown off the air during his annual drive to raise money for children with cancer, this man was not a bad man, he was a victim of a bunch of people with agendas. Reverend Al basically took money from children with cancer.
If a black person says that there are certain words that blacks can say and whites cant then he is said to be strengthening the black community, it a white person says that there is a word that whites can say and blacks cant then he is called a white separatist. If a black man calls a woman a ho he is given a record deal, if a white man does it he loses his job. Until we stop giving certain people certain privileges and certain people certain liberties where others do not have them then we are still a segregated nation.
I want to know why Reverend Al and Jessie Jackson don't try to solve the HUGE PROBLEMS that are running rampant in the black community, instead of attacking a stupid old white man for calling some ugly women ho's.
[B]And yes his comments where funny did you see those women, they looked like a bunch of men.[/B]
This article is the best thing i have read on the subject. Click on it.
http://www.kansascity.com/182/story/66339.html
I enjoy talking about this topic, but I find myself in a tough position. I feel as though I can argue both points with personal expierence. Racism is bad, but cmon thats common sense. Do I think Don Imus is racist? No, he's just an idiot. But lets be honest in a radio career as long as his, your bound to make some stupid mistakes, but I was shocked at his remarks. But I feel as though I am just as guilty although I disagree with it. Living in the dorms with 60 men I hear racist jokes and slams all the time, and I even participate. I laugh and jest with my fellow brothers, but soes it make it right? No. I dont know, because if i think about it, i know its wrong, but is it ok if you are just joking? I live on Basil 3 with some of the best guys i know, but does saying a "black joke" or a "gay joke" make us bad people? Its a tough line to make out. I was shocked that Imus was fired, but I guess thats the price nowadays. Im going to have to get back to you on my thoughts. I just dont know what classifies right and wrong. P.S. Hopefully their aren't and misspelled words.haha.
I wish I had more time to think about it but this subject makes me angery so I'll keep it short.
So Don said something racist right? He was punished harshly right? So what's the problem here? I mean, it's not like you wouldn't hear what Don said in any given rap song. Yes, being on the radio makes it worse. Lets hope a black person would recieve the same punishment no matter if he was talking about blacks or whites or asians or indians. Are we not to strive for equality? Doesn't affirmative action contradict the aggreement that "All men and created equal." (Created meaning at conception.) hopefully everyone gets the point.
Duke is exactly affirmative action gone wrong. Someone's skin color is the reasons two innocent men (white) were wrongly accused. Are Were Don's words worse then putting two students through hell for over a year? What punishment is the accuser and prosecutor recieving? any? any at all? hmmmmmmm nope can't find anything wrong with affirmative action. looks like their right walking on thin ice for the rest of our lives is better for the nation. after all their JUST a few white kids. I mean they probably had slave owners in their families. In fact they should probably be put in jail for that reason alone. probably a few lashings too.
The Duke Lacrosse case was a direct attack on wealthy white Americans. Ironically, the District Attorney was a wealthy white American. The “n word” is extremely offensive to African Americans. Ironically, in the modern world it is most commonly used by African Americans. I believe that racism is not a modern problem, and the problem lies in the past. Unfortunately the past can’t be changed, but the future is still unwritten. What would the African American activists want?
The historical oppression of African American makes many people treat incidents of white v. black differently. It is obviously seen in the Duke Lacrosse case, as the DA (awaiting election) wanted to win over some votes of the African American community by assuming that an African American woman must have been assaulted because of her skin color. Assumptions can be disastrous when dealing with race. It seems like we assume the African American activists want the wealthy whites to tip the scale to “black” side. I firmly believe this is not what they want because Dr. King would adamantly object to African American favoritism. Yet, there also seems to be an instinct for people to give redemption because they feel sorry for there past, and this is wrong. Can American’s change this instinct of favoritism? Dr. King certainly thought so when he gave his “I have a dream” speech. African Americans shouldn’t be favored because of their history, just like they shouldn’t have been discriminated against because their skin color was black.
I am not denouncing affirmative action at such schools, as the goal in that is to gain a different perspective in the classroom. However, in a court case, an act of racism should not be judged more heavily because it opposed African Americans. Like so, the Don Imus case is over exaggerated because it opposed African Americans. This is wrong. The African American activists wanted equality, and favoritism is certainly not equality. To promote African American favoritism and claim to be a supporter of civil rights is also hypocritical.
The comment that Don Imus made about the Rutger's basketball team was completly uncalled for. I don't know what he was thinking, but it was completely out of perspective. We do live in a racist world, and I am sure that a lot of people can admit to that. It is from how we were raised and brought up is how we are a racist world.
This is not a matter of racism, but of decency. A shock-jock radio personality is expected to make all sorts of jokes in bad taste. However, he is not expected to insult an undeserving group of student-athletes. It was not a decent act. So he is a jerk; Fire him, don't fire him, who cares??
This is an issue because guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson see it as an oppurtunity to profit publicly. No surprise.
However, what is surprising to me is the incredibly unsympathetic response from most people who posted a comment.
The "past is in the past" and black people should "get over it" and racism happened "hundreds of years ago" and black people "win more than they lose." Where the hell do you think you live?
To even suggest--which many of you did whether you know it or not--that the legacy of slavery and racism is irrelevant to the lives and struggles of present day African Americans is the definition of ignorance. Come on, are you serious? White Americans and the government have shat all over black Americans since we forced them to come here 400 years ago, and we still do. Just because you think you are not a racist does not make it true. A person is engrained with the history of his people and his family. How many members of your family were bought, sold, beaten, and forced to feel inferior by their own country? Do you think your family would be the same through the years? Think hard about that. Then, next time, try posting something that does not make white people look stuck-up and ignorant via your opinions and inability to spell and/or punctuate. For those of you who are not unconscious racists and are able to write at an 8th grade level, nevermind.
I believe that what Mr. Imus you said was not something that should be said on the radio, but the thing i dont get is why people care so much about this. Its one person, who is ovoiusly ignorant to alot of things. On TV news stations make it seems like every black child in this nation is forever hurt by his comments. I believe first the only was that a child in this country would ever even hear the comment he said is by the news repeating it over and over again. I do think their should be a penatly for what he did but to make him out as the biggest racist that ever lived and ruined a human beings life jsut becuase of one sentence he said when he was 65 years old dosent sound like justice to me.
Griff, want to be the faculty advisor for a new club at HC? Let's call it the "Empowering White People Society." We can issue press releases to all media outlets, with your name all over them. Wouldn't that be an incredible way to Celebrate Diversity?
Didn't think so. Please be consistant with your narrative.
To Tim: Could you back up the statement in which you say white people are still oppressing black people today? People seem to be confusing black with poor. It is poor people who are not getting a fair chance. There just happen to be a lot of black people who are poor but there are plenty of poor white people too. I have lived in one of the most rundown black neighborhoods in America(Shreveport, LA) for four weeks. This area happened to be mostly black but the reason it was a bad area was because they were poor not black. Having a strong feeling towards your family history is fine and getting offended because of it is fine but to then try to oppose on me something which I did not take any part of is foolish. Take positive lessons from the past and try not to get bogged down in the negative. In our capitalist society, it has unfortunely become a dog eat dog world, it has nothing to do with skin color. Most black people during/before the time of civil rights movement were kept poor and uneducated and when finally black people finally recieved equality most of them were in poor neighborhoods. Since they were poor it was harder to improve the circumstance they were put in, so racism made most black families poor. The problem though now is how the poor are treated and not given a good chance to be successful. Black people happen to be put in this position by racists. We need to worry about the actual problem not a superficial one that, yes, was fixed national(of course some individuals will still be racist) in the 60s. Sorry if my ideas jumped randomly, I just believe how the poor are treated and dealt with is the problem along with other issues I find particularly crucial, ie the War on Drugs which keeps the violent gangs in poor neighborhoods making it even harder for them to get out of or improve their neighborhood.
We need to compare what is poor here in America to what is poor around the world. I found these statistics particularly enlightening:
- Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
- Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
- Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
- The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
- Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
- Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
- Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
- Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.
Found at:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm
This issue is not about race. Life in America offers an opportunity for success that exceeds any country at any point in history. Do I view America has perfect? Certainly not, but America has certainly taken great strides to create a society that is more harmonious with human rights. I view this has insufficient. There is much more that America can accomplish. However, affirmative action is not the means by which to accomplish it. If we are to balance education and opportunity in America, then we should start a level far lower than college. Affirmative action is only a “band aid,” it does not address the true source of the wound.
FREE SPEECH!!! THERE IS NO LAW IN AMERICA AGAINST OFFENDING PEOPLE!!!!!!!
Black people should not be discriminated against. But also white people should not be discriminated against becuase of history that we had no control over. Affirmitive action gives SOME people the impression that they can get into a college just becuase of where they come from. People need to work hard to earn a place in a great university. Coming from a certain place should not make the difference between getting admitted or not.
While I do think that blacks have obviously been through many hardships, this does not necessarily mean that they should get more rights than whites. For instance, they can get into a college over a white person who met the same requirements just because they are black. Blacks and whites alike go through hard times and struggle through situations like extreme poverty.
It's sad to think that everyone has to walk on eggshells now that this Imus stuff has happened. When situations like Imus being fired happen, it limits free speech. Now, everyone that has a show, who is backed by sponcers, will have to limit what they say for fear of being made an example of. I also find it funny that had a black rapper said the same thing to the Rutker's basketball, it's just him expressing himself. What the hell?
To Robert: What you seem to have missed from my first post--maybe I didn't say it right--is that slavery and widespread racism in the past have left a lingering effect on African Americans. Just because you, me, or millions of others live their lives without having any racist attitudes does not make that lingering effect go away. We need to adopt a more active, not passive, method to remove that lingering effect (e.g. Affirmative Action).
What is this lingering effect I am talking about?? How come I have never seen it??
You say "there just happen(s) to be a lot of black people who are poor..." Why do you think African Americans make up 15% of America's population, but 30% of its poor population? (We didn't "fix" that "superficial" problem in the 60's like you said). There does not just `happen` to be a lot of poor black people. There are more than there should be due to the lingering effects of slavery and racism.
Just because you did not personally whip Kunta Kinte does not free you from the moral responsibility to recognize that blacks and whites are not yet equal. Like you said, "racism made most black families poor".
So what I am saying is that we can't just sit back, relax, and not be racist. America needs to help out its citizens that were screwed over. If then some white kid does not get into the school he wants, well, too bad. You said that it is "foolish" to criticize you for something that you did not take part in. Have you not benefitted from being white? Have black people not suffered from being black?
This is from the same song you quoted earlier:
"In the states
There's a problem with race
Because of ignorant past burned fires "
All I am saying is that even though this fire has died down, it is still smoldering; We should not act like it is completely out.
I understand that afirmative action exists to give minority students opportunities they would not normally have. As a perk affirmative action brings the history and points of view of those minorities thereby diversifying the student body or work place. On the other hand I feel disadvantaged as a white male. I'm torn on this subject because I feel that affirmative action is a good thing but at the same time it feels like when they grant a minority admission over a white male they are making blanket asumptions that all white males are the same. It seems like they are denying our individuality.
Angela says:Well, here we are still going over this issue even after the tragedy in Virginia. Well, I hope that will be discussed in class and we discuss ways of safety if all of a sudden someone gets whacked out. Anyways, let's open up a big can of worms, let's look at a group that is put down by every nation and race, and that is women to a greater or lesser extent in all of history and in the present. It is still a man's world, and the ones to suffer are not only the woman, but, especially all of the innocent children that the guy has fathered and left behind. There is an extreme amount of deadbet dads(and yes, there are a few mom's that way also) so, in many countries there are children who feel desperate, and try to break out of the poverty mode, of every color and every creed, who feel humilated by their circumstances. This is something that is consistent, that is mounting, and needs to be addressed on many different fonts/or avenues that are available. For when the mom's and the children have to do the parts of the deadbeat dad's, a lot of them give up in despair and turn to a life of crime, drugs, sex etc.etc. This issue needs to be dealt with for it all begins with the family, and when there is violence in the home, then what can we reasonaaly expect society to be like! This unfortunate situation is escalating at alarming rates, and many, many children of all faiths, creeds, colors, are suffering immensely. All of us are God's children. Also, on a personal level, I have to state that as a single mother that over the years it has almost always been my black sister who has helped me with my kids,(ie.getting in and out of doors with strollers and such, while it is usually the middle-class white woman who looks down. I suppose because when you are suffering you are united with other sufferers and so there is a very strong bond.) Because I have many friends and I have also dated men of different races I have been looked down upon because of this, so, anyways, what a mess society is in, and I have always wondered if people think dark skin is offensive, then why do they get a tan??? I'm rambling...
To Tim: I agree with most of what you said. Except this: "If then some white kid does not get into the school he wants, well, too bad." My point is what if that white kid is very poor and trying to improve his life. What if his family was screwed as well just not because of racism? I can understand giving help to poor children but skin color is meaningless. We should improve poor neighborhoods and frankly if you feel it necessary to say it is because of past racism or in the name of equality, that is fine. I just feel it necessary for myself to look past race and face the actual problems in America. I'm for equal opportunity and giving preferences to black people instead of poor people is just the reversal of past racism(of course not even close as bad though). Fighting fire with fire is not the best idea. I loved the use of that great song though and agree 100 percent with that anaylsis. Good points overall. I think it would be good to end on another song lyric. Why Can't We Be Friends by War: "The color of your skin don't matter to me
As long as we can live in harmony"
Is an African American youth part of the history of his ancestors or is he a part of the story of his parents, environment, experiences, and himself? Affirmative Action is a form of racism itself. If a black student, from a low-income, disadvantaged household with a sub=par educational experience, applies to a college, he/she should be accepted because of being poor and for making the best of less opportunity. Why is it always brought back to race? Race is simply the color of someone's skin. And although not all races have been trated equally or fairly in the history of our country, the same thing is still happening with things like Affirmative Action. Create diversity based on experiences, not skin color.
What does African American mean? I have a friend who was born in South Africa, and now lives in America and has citizenship. Is he African American?
Oh, I forgot to mention, he is white. His family left South Africa because of the growing anti-white violence and anti-white sentiment.
African American is simply a code word for "black." Let's not use code words.
I thought Obama was pretty cool, but now I don't. He compared the Virginia Tech think to the Imus incident and said that they where the same only one was verbal.I guess calling some ugly women ugly is the same as killing innocent people now.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi..._Violence.html
In class on Friday, Mr. Griffin told us to look around the room and see how many African Americans are in the room. He said we need diversity to improve the learning environment. This may be true, but there is a large error in that argument. Holy Cross College cannot be used in the argument for affirmative action. When someone applies to Holy Cross, they get in. Period. This school has no admission standards. If a white kid applies, he gets in. If a black kid applies, he gets in. If an Asian kid applies, he gets in. Who's fault is it that there are no African Americans in our ethics class? Do we need to force kids to apply here? South Bend has a large African American population. Mr. Griffin said his neighborhood and this college are two different worlds. Anyone in South Bend who wants to come to Holy Cross can come to Holy Cross.
Andy, you never fail to take someones words out of context and exploit them on one of your 'passioned' rampages. The only problem with Obama is that he shares that in common with you. Obama was quoted by ABC News as saying "I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group." Andy, you and Imus both need to realize that a person can not be defined by one statement or one action... as Griff would say, they are just one element of the 'web' that defines who we are. While the comments that Imus made may be unacceptable, they were no more than a struggling outdated comedian trying to ruffle some feathers to boost ratings.
Luke, in light of the Imus comments, it has become pretty clear that there is no safe vocabulary when it comes to racism. You can't really blame some innocent white kids for making an attempt to be racially sensitive by calling blacks African American... maybe Imus should have made more of an effort to do the same.
racism is without a doubt still a problem in the U.S. the thing that bothers me is whenever something like this happens in our society, the media and courts make a festival out of it.
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